*** Logfile started *** on Tue May 21 19:25:58 2013 [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [07:25:58 PM] Join You have joined the channel #wplugboard (~justin@dynamic-acs-72-23-220-84.zoominternet.net). [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [07:25:58 PM] Topic The channel topic is "WPLUG Board of Directors Meeting - May 21 2013". [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [07:25:58 PM] Topic The topic was set by patbarron!patbarron@nat/ibm/x-rnajhlmqrieshzno on 05/21/13 06:55 PM. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [07:25:59 PM] Mode Channel modes: invite only, no messages from outside, secret [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [07:25:59 PM] Created This channel was created on 05/21/13 06:55 PM. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [07:26:41 PM] Have you heard the news about what Google is doing with Hangouts? [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [07:27:19 PM] I heard some news at I/O, which I admittedly didn't parse completely - I was paying more attention to the Android stuff... [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [07:27:30 PM] I do know my phone now wants to download the new (separate) Hangouts app [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [07:28:00 PM] Yeah, they're rolling their communication services into Hangouts. Unfortunately, in the process, they're dropping suppor for XMPP/Jabber. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [07:28:10 PM] Google has now made Hangouts a 100% proprietary service. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [07:28:21 PM] They also refuse to publish APIs for Google+. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [07:28:31 PM] I'm not surprised. Google is free, but they've never really been "open", per se. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [07:29:01 PM] I no longer support making Google+ the centerpiece of WPLUG's social media. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [07:29:21 PM] (For what that's worth.) [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [07:29:35 PM] Plus they're getting goofy lately about just dropping support for stuff. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [07:31:01 PM] According the EFF, Twitter has a better record of protecting users' rights. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [07:31:03 PM] Join jprostko has joined this channel (~jprostko@c-67-172-49-116.hsd1.pa.comcast.net). [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [07:31:20 PM] That, along with the fact that WPLUG has been on there, makes me see Twitter in a better light. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [07:31:25 PM] Hey Joe. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [07:31:33 PM] Even though it's still a proprietary service. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [07:32:10 PM] Pat and I were just talking about the changes to Hangouts. Google has basically made is 100% closed. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [07:32:28 PM] Twitter at least publishes an API (and they probably won't even revoke your API key if you don't annoy them too badly...) [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [07:33:20 PM] There are limits to the number of API calls a third-party app can make, though. I remember reading a lot of outrage over that not so long ago. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [07:33:27 PM] But even so, that's better than having no API at all, yeah. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [07:33:31 PM] I'll try inviting Terry again - I invited him before while we were chatting on the main channel, but he didn't respond. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [07:33:49 PM] I don't think we'd ever run up against the API limits. ;-) I can understand why they're there, of course. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [07:35:17 PM] okay, i'll finish making a smoothie in the meantime until he arrives. :) [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [07:35:40 PM] I think I'll go wash a few dishes. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [07:36:12 PM] Mode patbarron removes the 'invite only' mode from the channel. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [07:36:46 PM] Join Kumintu_Terryg has joined this channel (~quassel@pool-74-98-253-222.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net). [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [07:36:55 PM] A ha! [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [07:36:55 PM] Mode patbarron sets the channel mode to 'invite only'. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [07:36:59 PM] There you are. ;-) [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [07:37:13 PM] I put it back to invite-only. Not that there's anyone else to invite. ;-) [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [07:37:21 PM] I made it. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [07:37:26 PM] Alright then, since we're all here... [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [07:37:36 PM] The meeting is called to order at 7:37 PM. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [07:37:57 PM] affirmative [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [07:38:05 PM] Do we have any calls to review the minutes of the last board meeting? [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [07:38:24 PM] I wouldn't mind a synopsis [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [07:38:33 PM] since I missed it. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [07:38:40 PM] Well, that's a change! Okay, let me pull it up. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [07:39:36 PM] We mainly focused on the Raspberry Pi workshop - what we were doing, etc. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [07:40:10 PM] Okay [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [07:40:10 PM] Touched on some of the things involved with meeting at CLP, like the networking there. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [07:40:33 PM] And we finished up by ratifying Stripe as our official method of online payments. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [07:40:57 PM] We felt that Stripe's terms and conditions were acceptable. There is a risk that they could ask us to perform some sort of security audit, but we didn't think that was a likely scenario. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [07:40:59 PM] Okay stripe.. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [07:41:07 PM] that was a quick summary. :) [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [07:41:33 PM] Where does the treasurer fit in regards to managing stripe [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [07:42:01 PM] Do you want to go for the "account activation" bit? I haven't gotten a chance to do that since Saturday, so it's still a to-do. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [07:42:01 PM] stripe is on hold for now as far as i recall [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [07:42:21 PM] oh, nevermind [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [07:42:39 PM] on hold.. I just want to know if the audit would be only our logs? [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [07:42:54 PM] What else would they need? [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [07:43:09 PM] If they were to call for an audit ... no, it would be much more than that. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [07:43:28 PM] Tax forms etc etc...? [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [07:43:34 PM] Let me pull up the T&C's.... [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [07:43:48 PM] mount [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [07:43:49 PM] No, it's more like an IT Security audit [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [07:43:54 PM] oops [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [07:44:15 PM] Oh okay we might do okay in that area. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [07:44:41 PM] It's not like we're funneling drug money or something. The chances of us getting audited are very small. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [07:44:50 PM] At least, from my point of view. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [07:45:05 PM] https://stripe.com/us/terms [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [07:45:06 PM] Sounds reasonable [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [07:45:13 PM] See Section A, part 9, for the gory details [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [07:45:14 PM] And Pat, didn't you say that we could just cancel our Stripe account if they asked us to perform an audit? [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [07:46:20 PM] Well, one possible outcome I suggested could happen would be that we could refuse to perform the audit, and they'd cancel our account. Not clear if they might try to come after us for damages for breaching the contract, would probably depend on exactly what the situtation was. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [07:47:09 PM] Things they'd care about would be, if we were putting their compliance with PCI rules in jeopardy (like, storing card #'s unencrypted or something) [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [07:47:30 PM] Don't they store that info? [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [07:48:00 PM] There are rules that dictate exactly when and how you can store payment card information - rules imposed by the card issuers. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [07:48:06 PM] (i.e., Mastercard, Visa, etc.) [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [07:48:13 PM] Nah, storing sensitive information in cleartext is the domain of brilliant companies like Sony. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [07:48:19 PM] Ah of course no [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [07:49:17 PM] That should settle that, then. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [07:49:18 PM] well anybody can do that:> [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [07:49:39 PM] Do you have any open concerns about proceeeding with activating the Stripe acocunt for payment processing, Terry? [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [07:50:15 PM] I don't think so. Just concerned with reporting and such [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [07:51:11 PM] If you want to (as treasurer) do the activation, how about I sync yp with you (via e-mail) later tonight, or tomorrow, and I can tell you where the passwords ans stuff are? [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [07:51:46 PM] Okay thats fine.. (what's yp mean?) [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [07:52:02 PM] (THe account is open in "test mode" right now - you can run "fake" transactions that do nothing, for test purposes, but they need the final bits of online paperwork before we can go forward with processing actual payments) [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [07:52:13 PM] yp -> up (Not typing real well...) [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [07:52:20 PM] Ah ok [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [07:52:50 PM] okay lets move along I've happy [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [07:52:56 PM] I'm [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [07:53:02 PM] Is there anything else pertaining to our activities at the last meeting that we should revisit? [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [07:53:41 PM] Well, we had someone new show up. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [07:53:46 PM] That's a good sign. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [07:53:47 PM] Not afaik [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [07:53:55 PM] Oh, wait, the BOARD meeting. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [07:53:58 PM] Nevermind. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [07:54:21 PM] Meant last board meeting - but yeah, new attendees are always good, and I was glad to see both the new guy, and the returning guy, stop by. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [07:54:22 PM] i was going to say, you guys replaced me already?! ;) [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [07:54:28 PM] Well, I brought up Bitcoin as a possible payment method, and we decided against it because of the volatility. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [07:54:40 PM] (I've been spending a lot of time on Reddit lately.) [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [07:55:06 PM] Though pertaining to the last e-mail you sent about it - I see no reason not to accept "donations" of Bitcoin - just that we shouldn't count on them ever being worth anything in the future [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [07:55:11 PM] plus the feds got their eyes on it. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [07:55:42 PM] Reddit is like twitter? [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [07:55:50 PM] or foursquare? [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [07:55:53 PM] If it turns out we can do anything with any Bitcoin we receive, so much the better - but I don't think something to rely on. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [07:56:03 PM] true [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [07:56:10 PM] More like a discussion board [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [07:56:14 PM] yeah, dwolla can't do anything with BTCs anymore, i don't think. I haven't tried lately, but heard about a crackdown on it. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [07:56:21 PM] Yeah, a discussion board full of people like me. Sort of. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [07:56:36 PM] Right - Dwolla is under court order to freeze MtGox's account [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [07:56:40 PM] You can't stop bitcoin-to-bitcoin transactions, though. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [07:57:05 PM] MtGox who/what kind of entity is that? [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [07:57:08 PM] On the other hand, the government can nibble away at payment exchanges, leaving bitcoin essentially worthless. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [07:57:36 PM] Mt. Gox is a popular bitcoin payment exchange. You can trade dollars for bitcoins and vice versa. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [07:57:38 PM] They don't like the idea of the anonymous factor. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [07:57:39 PM] This is true. The question is, will pure Bitcoin transactions be worth anything if there is no way to eventually pull the Bitcoins out into the "real" economy. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [07:58:08 PM] Sure. There are plenty of sites out there that accept Bitcoin. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [07:58:16 PM] of the creator. The actual strength of it. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [07:58:24 PM] Bitpay is an eBay imitator that accepts Bitcoin. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [07:58:47 PM] Er, wait. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [07:58:53 PM] Bitpay is like Paypal. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [07:58:57 PM] I'm getting my sites mixed up. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [07:59:12 PM] The Dwolla thing was not unanticipated, given the recent Fed ruling that they were going to hold the Bitcoin exchanges to the same regstration / licensing rules as other "Money Transfer Agents" (like Western Union, etc.) [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [07:59:12 PM] Wouldn't bitcoins be rated differently by our bank? [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [07:59:25 PM] Bitmit is what I'm thinking of. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:00:03 PM] Well they do consider themselves to be money don't they? [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:00:08 PM] Well, of course, our bank cares not about Bitcoin - so if you want to bank 'em, you have to somehow convert Bitcoin to legal tender - and that's what the Feds are trying to put a stop to [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:00:29 PM] Or buy something using bitcoins directly. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:00:30 PM] Right I see [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:00:56 PM] You could go to Bitmit and buy hardware, accessories, etc. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:01:09 PM] But yeah, it's still too volatile and controversial to accept for membership dues, at least. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:01:48 PM] Right - and the "bitcoin economy" only works among parties who agree that Bitcoin is worth something. My assertion (possibly a weak one...) is that the primary reason most of the bitcoin economy works, is that the paritcipants are counting on the possibility of exchanging them for currency at some point in the future [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:02:16 PM] but donations.. could we open an account for bitcoin donations on an exchange? [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:02:22 PM] That's how any fiat currency works, really. Our paper dollars aren't worth diddly squat. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:02:40 PM] They used to be backed with precious metal. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:02:43 PM] bring back the Dollar coin and melt all the pennies [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:02:45 PM] Right - but the US "legal tender" fiat currency has force of law... [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:03:08 PM] Gold took a dive recently [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:03:31 PM] Based on how Bitcoin purports to be an "open" currency capable of easily moving across borders, I think it fits in well with WPLUG's values. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:03:31 PM] The pennies are actually worth more in melt value now than their face value... [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:04:00 PM] But we're getting a bit too far off-topic now, though. We were just talking about the previous meeting. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:04:05 PM] yup and I agree centinel across borders indeed [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:04:08 PM] Let's come back to this in new business. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:04:18 PM] okay [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:04:27 PM] joe u alive? [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:04:29 PM] Are there any other items from the previous board meeting to review? [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:04:54 PM] no Not unless u guys feel the need to inform me. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:04:55 PM] Nothing I can think of. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:04:58 PM] yeah, i'm alive. my dad is talking to me constantly, so it's hard to focus. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:05:37 PM] plus i'm a bit familiar with BTCs, seeing as they've made me a few grand over the years [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:05:54 PM] but yeah, i tend to sell them, not actually use them very often to pay for things [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:05:55 PM] You got in at the bottom of the pyramid. ;-) [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:06:15 PM] OK, that was a cheap shot... ;-) [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:06:25 PM] but anyway, new business we can move to [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:06:25 PM] (on BTC, not Joe, of course...) [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:06:38 PM] i understand [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:06:38 PM] Reports of officers? [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:06:38 PM] :) [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:06:54 PM] oh yeah [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:06:55 PM] those too [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:06:57 PM] Chair reports: Nothing new since his last report was delivered on Saturday to the membership. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:07:24 PM] (Except for an interaction with the board of PACC, which I'll get to under New Business) [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:08:12 PM] I yield the balance of my time... [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:08:22 PM] The vice chair/secretary reports an incidental decision that could have implications for WPLUG. I've decided to seriously investigate making a career shift to Linux system administration. I plan to speak with Martin from SNAPGH about how I can learn about the field, and I may be able to use this as an opportunity to plan something with his group. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:08:47 PM] We can talk about that in new business if any of you are interested. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:08:54 PM] Definitely [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:08:56 PM] Not my career shift - working with SNAPGH. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:09:07 PM] The Treasurer has a revised balance since last meeting. $699.81 + $20.00 in new membership fees. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:09:25 PM] YTBDeposited [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:09:58 PM] From Jeff Fox, right? [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:10:05 PM] Yes [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:10:36 PM] He's worthy [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:11:13 PM] get it... [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:11:28 PM] Fox-Worthy [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:11:28 PM] Ahhh [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:11:30 PM] hee hee ;-) [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:11:34 PM] It took me a minute there. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:11:37 PM] wasn't sure if you were being punny or not [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:11:55 PM] Yes I'm a big Bizarro fan [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:12:09 PM] The Sunday Punnies [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:12:20 PM] (Off-topic aside- Jeff Foxworthy was once a System Support Rep for IBM - the people that come out and fix your servers when they break. No lie.) [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:12:54 PM] No way! Wow... [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:12:56 PM] i wasn't aware of that [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:12:59 PM] Wholey Smokes Be he's got old parts up on blocks in his front yard;> [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:13:20 PM] pdp11s disk case... [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:13:22 PM] Can't tell a book by it's cover, I guess ;-) [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:13:38 PM] tape drives [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:13:50 PM] Do you have anything to report, Joe? [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:14:04 PM] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Foxworthy#Early_life [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:14:21 PM] wait wait I bet if he mows his lawn he find a 8" floppy drive;> [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:14:35 PM] No, I do not have anything to report. I hope to actually have something to report one of these meetings. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:15:08 PM] I believe this concludes the reports of officers. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:15:27 PM] New business? I have one item. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:15:51 PM] I have three, possibly two if yours overlaps with mine. I'll let you go first. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:16:14 PM] Wow, that totally came across like I'm some kind of condescending so-and-so. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:16:21 PM] Did not mean that. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:16:27 PM] I spoke to the Executve VP of PACC (Pittsburgh Area Computer Club) over the weekend. PACC has expressed that they'd like to invite members of the WPLUG community to visit at a PACC event. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:16:41 PM] I'm game [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:16:58 PM] What, specifically, is PACC? [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:17:01 PM] They work differently than WPLUG, in that normally their meeetings are open to members only ($25/year), though they do let "visitors" stop by for a meeting or two to see if it's for them. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:17:34 PM] Arn't these the old farts you've been telling us about? Pat [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:17:37 PM] PACC is a general "personal computing interest" organization. Actually one of the oldest PC user groups in the country. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:17:51 PM] ah old in that regard :> [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:18:18 PM] They're at a place where they're realizing that their membership has fallen off (from a peak of over 500 in the early 80's), and trying to revitalize. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:18:41 PM] One of the members is in fact over 90 years old. I'd say the mean age of members (excluding myself) is about 70. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:18:46 PM] Kind of like us...although I doubt we ever had numbers in the hundreds. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:19:09 PM] centinel: u you could do your raspbery pi demo for them [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:19:16 PM] really wow them [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:19:17 PM] PACC was "kind of a big deal" back in the day, they held large expos at places like Century III Mall, etc. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:19:28 PM] I am actually going to bring a Pi to the next meeting [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:19:32 PM] Monroeville expo mart? [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:19:45 PM] I don't know if people that old would have much interest in Linux if they don't already use it. Not to sound discriminatory, but the older users I've dealt with have almost always been 100% stuck on what they've always used. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:20:06 PM] I don't think they did anything there - I know I recall Century III and Allegheny Center Mall. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:20:08 PM] But yeah, I wouldn't mind giving the Raspberry Pi demo again. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:20:43 PM] Yeah that goes for my Mom. She showd a passing interest in what I do, but she can't give up her analog phone. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:20:44 PM] THey are admittedly mostly Windows-focused - but keep in mind, most of these guys were the type that were building their own computers in the early days [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:21:16 PM] When a PC was an expensive luxury [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:21:36 PM] (THey still have a WordPerfect SIG, and they have a "members helping members" assistance exchange, where one of the volunteers offers help with COBOL...) [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:21:38 PM] I remember those early Computer Shoppers [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:22:02 PM] I ran into a COBOL programmer last week. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:22:07 PM] well, what is the plan. send out something to the general list or announce list about the invite by PACC? [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:22:27 PM] Anyway, the net of it is - they've asked to extend an invitation to any members of the WPLUG community who would like to come by, and I just wanted to make sure it was cool with you guys to pass that on to the mailing list. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:23:12 PM] That sounds fine. I think at least a few of us here should volunteer to go in order to avoid making it seem like we're disinterested. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:23:14 PM] (Since I'd kind of be speaking "officially" for us in that regard.) [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:23:15 PM] geez I dunno we might get the 3rd degree from the gen mailing list [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:23:58 PM] If Pat or I could give another Raspberry Pi demo, maybe we could pitch a prospective event as a second chance to view what they missed during the last GUM. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:24:10 PM] That is, if PACC would be interested in letting us present. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:24:14 PM] I'm actually a member, so I'm there most meetings anyway. THey have a problem that we kind of have too, which is that nobody knows about them. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:24:39 PM] Do they have any contact with the group in Tarentum? [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:24:42 PM] (Even people who used to be members, I mention to them, and the response is usually "PACC? OMG, they're still around?" [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:24:50 PM] Not that I'm aware of [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:25:16 PM] That group actually has a reasonable following [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:25:25 PM] Last year they held a SFD event. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:25:40 PM] THey are, however, affiliated with APCUG (which I think the Tartentum group is also) [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:25:46 PM] ...For windows software, but it was FOSS [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:26:07 PM] I think they are APCUG [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:26:46 PM] I know that 2 years ago their president came to our Monroeville Installfest [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:26:55 PM] APCUG is an umbrella organization, "Assocation of Personal Computer User Groups". PACC actually gets their web hosting from APCUG. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:27:11 PM] Nice venue the Monroeville Pub lib [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:27:17 PM] I just pulled up their Web site. It looks...well, dated. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:27:24 PM] It ... is. ;-) [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:27:34 PM] Say, maybe we could work with them to improve both of our Web sites. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:27:50 PM] We both need people to do the work, right? [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:28:05 PM] I'm betting Pavel (the guy who takes care of it) would be interested in some help. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:28:10 PM] that could be a good idea. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:28:27 PM] I'd be willing to come to the next event and join. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:28:30 PM] Well have we put ourselves out there looking for help from Members and non-members alike? [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:28:41 PM] I trust Pat's judgment, so if it's a group he belongs to, I'll give it a shot. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:29:02 PM] Yes. We've had the call to present out for...years, I think, on the wiki. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:29:03 PM] I said I'll go [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:29:15 PM] Oh. I must have missed that. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:29:20 PM] Well, the three of us can go, then. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:29:23 PM] Terry, kind of - I would not say we "put ourselves out there", but (for instance) committee positions are available for anyone who wants to fill them. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:29:25 PM] Sorry about that, Terry! [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:29:35 PM] Including Internet Committee. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:29:37 PM] Not a problem [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:29:55 PM] Though mainly that's just us and Vance right now, since Ted has gone walkabout. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:30:02 PM] Yeah no one on our maling list came forward [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:30:22 PM] Anyway, I'll follow up by e-mail with a proposed note to send to the group - I just wanted to get a feel for how you all felt about the idea. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:30:35 PM] (ted exists on facebook lately) [Redacted comments] [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:32:00 PM] Anyway, that was the one item of new biz I had to present. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:32:03 PM] I think this is a very positive development. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:32:28 PM] Joe, Terry, do either of you have any new business? I talk a lot, so I'll yield the floor to you. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:32:41 PM] No [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:32:47 PM] ... [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:33:03 PM] no, feel free to go, centinel. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:33:13 PM] yup [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:33:24 PM] indeed [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:33:26 PM] Okay. I've got three items: Google+, Vance's idea, and SNAPGH. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:33:32 PM] First up, Google+. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:33:39 PM] I was talking with Pat about this just before the meeting. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:34:07 PM] By now, you've probably heard that Google has rolled its communication services into Hangouts. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:34:26 PM] In the process, they killed compatibility with Jabber/XMPP. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:34:48 PM] yeah, i heard about that [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:34:59 PM] In effect, Hangouts is now a 100% closed, proprietary service. I don't think it's appropriate for us to use it as our social media HQ, and I think we should avoid using it if possible. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:35:10 PM] Google won't even publish an API for Google+. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:35:22 PM] hmmm [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:35:26 PM] not good [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:35:52 PM] According to the EFF, Twitter has a better record of supporting users' rights. We're also more highly established there than we ever were on Google+. I propose that we focus our efforts solely on Twitter. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:36:05 PM] Lets get a mob together and go burn down the East liberty office ;> [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:36:08 PM] maybe we could use webrtc or something? i haven't looked at it in a while though. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:36:49 PM] We should remove our Google+ site [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:36:52 PM] then [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:37:09 PM] Probably. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:37:10 PM] I would say that Twitter is where we would get our best bang for the buck anyway, simply because of the high degree of adoption. And they do have an open API that is available for reasonable use. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:37:56 PM] It sounds like Pat and I are in agreement, then. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:38:06 PM] i am not a fan of all the dumb restrictions twitter has in place, but i don't think any of those restrictions would affect us anyway. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:38:12 PM] (He and I are the only ones on the committee, for anyone reading this) [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:38:17 PM] so yeah, i guess it's not a big deal [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:38:43 PM] What is WebRTC, Joe? [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:39:03 PM] Last time I checked the G+ circles, I don't think we had much traction there anyway. But I do see notifications of people adding us on Twitter from time to time. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:39:37 PM] I'll go along with that. I honestly am not well versed in using Twitter. I do follow some others. FSF [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:39:41 PM] http://www.webrtc.org/reference/architecture [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:40:16 PM] Ah, I see. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:40:26 PM] basically so you can do video communication across the major browsers without plugins. and it has an api and all. not sure if there are many implementations floating around yet though. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:40:33 PM] Seems more like a framework for "build your own", if I'm interpreting it correctly? [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:42:00 PM] That's what it looks like to me. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:42:17 PM] And we've already got work we need to catch up on. The simplest thing is probably to just move to Twitter. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:42:21 PM] at this point, i believe so. i know it's not on my agenda to code something for it right now. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:42:22 PM] This sounds ground up to me [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:42:31 PM] For now. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:42:40 PM] i just mentioned it as an alternative to a Hangout, eventually [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:42:53 PM] but yeah, i'm fine with the twitter decision [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:43:17 PM] Same here go Twitter [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:43:19 PM] Personally, I wouldn't mind revisiting my earlier idea of creating a private social network with the cooperation of other technology groups. We need time to build those bridges, though. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:43:30 PM] So for now, yeah, go Twitter. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:43:44 PM] As an aside, do you know when XMPP support is going to vanish? I'm actually connected to GTailk via XMPP right now, I see Joe logged in... [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:44:04 PM] There doesn't seem to be a definite date. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:44:12 PM] is diaspora open source? admit i haven't logged into it in about a year. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:44:12 PM] Hopefully we won't need to be jumping around :*( [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:44:14 PM] hmm [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:44:26 PM] I wonder if that affects Talkatone, too... [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:44:27 PM] yeah, i'm not sure about the date either. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:44:33 PM] Diaspora is open source, but the interface is HORRIBLE. And limited. I was thinking something more along the lines of Boonex Dolphin or something. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:44:56 PM] But that's a discussion for another day. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:44:57 PM] Diaspora is open source, but adoption has been basicially zero. (After their Kickstarter campaign and everything...) [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:45:59 PM] yeah, i better look into the talkatone part, seeing as my main number has been ported to gvoice after all. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:46:09 PM] Definitely. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:46:45 PM] Alright, my second new item is Vance's idea. For any of you who haven't seen his recent email to the board, he proposed creating a WPLUG DDNS service for our members. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:47:07 PM] As someone who runs a mini-server, I think this is a good idea for a couple of reasons. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:47:22 PM] First, it makes it easy for people to get started running a server of their own. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:47:54 PM] We want to do everything we can to get people to be adventurous - not just because it's part of our organizational values, but because people who are adventurous can present on their adventures. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:48:14 PM] Registering a domain and finding a good DDNS service is a real hassle. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:48:30 PM] I use dyndns free service [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:48:31 PM] And finding a free service is even harder because you either don't know the company providing it or they have weird limitations. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:48:54 PM] Dyn no longer offers free service, unfortunately. You're lucky you got grandfathered in. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:49:12 PM] Vance proposed creating a DDNS service that would go along the lines of [name].member.wplug.org [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:49:13 PM] Yeah it has been a couple of years now. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:49:31 PM] And we'd have some sort of Web interface to adjust it. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:49:53 PM] Yeah, that happened to me with my "traditional" DNS through Dyn. I was grandfathered in from when they acquired EveryDNS, then I tried to register a new domain and they wanted $20/year... [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:50:14 PM] you can get a free dyndns account a sneaky way by going through d-link. i did it to basically reclaim my lost one that i let expire. but yeah, us offering something would be nice. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:50:17 PM] I have seen the email and I agree this has potential. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:50:52 PM] Personally, I am not sure I see a huge amount of benefit here - but I also don't see a lot of cost or effort either. And for those who'd like to use it, it would be a nice service. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:51:16 PM] Even things of limited utility are cool if they don't take much care and feeding. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:51:27 PM] Yes [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:51:46 PM] I don't think it's any better or worse than offering our own instance of TT-RSS. People can do it on their own, but they can come to us to make it easy. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:51:52 PM] And that's what we want to do: make it easy for them. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:52:06 PM] Maybe we can try to guide people toward running a server in our demonstrations, for instance. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:52:27 PM] RIght - it's possibly a niche interest, but once you get it going, it shouldn't be much trouble to maintain. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:52:32 PM] Show us how it help them solve a problem [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:52:49 PM] And we really do have much more capacity on the server than we're using at the moment. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:53:20 PM] Aside from the investment in time, we'd probably have to invest in an SSL certificate as well at some point. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:53:29 PM] Kind of like my idea of running a CA - maybe only a few people might use it, but it's not difficult. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:53:33 PM] Yup you guys r on a roll [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:54:08 PM] yeah, very good ideas [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:54:23 PM] So if we're all in favor of this, where should it fit on our priorities? [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:54:26 PM] We follow the kiss principle and maybe they will come [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:54:46 PM] Does the Web site come first? [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:54:50 PM] we'd need rules again so as to not have wplug's name tarnished, and related to abuse and what not [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:55:05 PM] Ah good question.. What comes first [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:55:41 PM] and usage rules [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:55:49 PM] I think we should do a quick effort assessment first. My gut says start cooking on the web site first, but if this is just a few hours of effort from start to finish, we might make a different decision. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:56:05 PM] And I'm all too good at coming up with rules, that part I think I can do. ;-) [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:56:43 PM] Yeah, Pat's the man with the plan. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:56:51 PM] okay chair do we need to formalize a vote on exactly what we're proposing [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:56:58 PM] i'd prefer the website, but honestly i don't think it matters much as long as people see we're making progress in the right direction. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:57:35 PM] I need to work with you centinel on tiny rss android app [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:57:58 PM] still can't login but this can wait... [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:58:02 PM] Yeah, we need to get that squared away before we release it to the public. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:58:08 PM] That and the performance issues, if we can do anything about them. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:58:24 PM] I think what we can do (for now) is refer this proposal to the Internet Committee, since Vance is really the one with the plan, and he'd probably be interested in taking the lead on it. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:58:43 PM] (I mean, seeing as it was his idea and all) [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:58:50 PM] loging in from an Andriod app would add some kewl factor [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:59:11 PM] I'll go along with that as long as you're sure that Vance is wiling to get involved with this. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [08:59:30 PM] I'll offer to help him with it. [Redacted comments] [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [09:01:18 PM] Here's an idea: maybe I could ask Martin if SNAPGH would be willing to help us get this up and running in exchange for something we'd do for/with them. [Redacted comments] [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [09:01:43 PM] absitively [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [09:01:56 PM] Sure [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [09:02:15 PM] That's a nice little segway into my last point. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [09:02:39 PM] What could we offer them in return, though? [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [09:02:40 PM] Though admittedly, I'm not exactly sure what they "do" - i.e., are they a forum for information exchange, or do they "do stuff", etc. Not a slam on them, I just don't know enough about them to know what their real mission is [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [09:03:09 PM] Well, from my perspective, a group of system administrators can't be completely ignorant about this sort of thing. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [09:03:24 PM] I admittedly don't know any more than Pat does, but it's a hunch. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [09:03:40 PM] That's the problem, I'm not sure what we could offer them, except for our gratitude... [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [09:03:50 PM] Then again, I'm not sure what they'd want or need. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [09:03:53 PM] (If anything) [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [09:04:24 PM] yeah, i'm not sure as well either to be honest [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [09:04:25 PM] We can only ask and see what they might want/need. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [09:04:57 PM] So, centinel - you are going to be talking to Martin anyway - can you pick his brain on this topic if you have a chance? Not to detract from your main purpose, of course. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [09:05:12 PM] Yeah, that's what I wanted to cover in my final point. This sort of thing. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [09:05:28 PM] I'll just ask him in a generic sense if there's anything that our groups could collaborate on. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [09:05:37 PM] I think that's a good idea [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [09:05:40 PM] If there is something, I'll bring up our DDNS idea. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [09:05:57 PM] sounds solid to me [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [09:05:58 PM] Could we offer them space on our server? [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [09:06:34 PM] Maybe we could pitch the DDNS idea as a joint service that could be used by both SNAPGH and WPLUG. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [09:06:46 PM] They handle the maintenance, we run the service. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [09:06:52 PM] I don't know, I'm just throwing ideas out there. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [09:07:01 PM] I believe they have their own web hosting somewhere - actually, their site looks like a Wordpress site... [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [09:07:20 PM] There is power in numbers some may want to run Windows Servers? [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [09:07:32 PM] "Proudly Powered by WordPress" ... so, yeah... :-) [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [09:07:55 PM] There goes that idea. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [09:08:13 PM] From their site: [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [09:08:19 PM] Well WP is a win only package [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [09:08:22 PM] I think joint services may be a concept worth exploring, though. Give it some thought [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [09:08:29 PM] "Are you only linux admins? [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [09:08:30 PM] " [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [09:08:39 PM] "Nope. We are Sysadmins. Those systems can be anything technology related. We have members who are Windows administrators, Exchange administrators, Network administrators, and other varied job titles. We are inclusive, meaning everyone is welcome. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [09:08:39 PM] " [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [09:09:33 PM] I'm go along. We need to start somewhere. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [09:09:54 PM] And they are inclusive so .. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [09:10:00 PM] lets give it a try [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [09:10:06 PM] Alright. I'll start small. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [09:10:08 PM] Regardless of focus or tactical goals, I am totally on-board with stengthening our ties to other local tech organizations [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [09:10:21 PM] You can never have too many friends. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [09:10:23 PM] I don't know how far I'll be able to get with this before I leave, though. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [09:10:41 PM] I'm leaving for vacation on Friday. I'll be gone from then until the following Sunday. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [09:10:42 PM] Yes friends are good [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [09:11:02 PM] centinel: r u going abroad? [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [09:11:09 PM] I think just starting the idea cooking in his head is good until you're back from vacation. Assuming you'll see him before that, of course. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [09:11:40 PM] Yes, I'm going to Europe. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [09:11:50 PM] EuroPass? [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [09:11:56 PM] No, a cruise. [Tuesday, May 21, 2013] [09:11:57 PM]