[wplug] New FCC Rules May Prevent Installing OpenWRT on WiFi Routers

Doug Green diego96 at mac.com
Wed Jul 29 20:25:04 EDT 2015


I don't think anyone is saying that this is an attack on consumer freedom, or the (in)ability to buy unnecessary stuff. 

The issue is that it puts shackles on a router and locks away the firmware in black box. We are supposed to then trust that the vendors wouldn't be complicit in violating our 4th amendment rights (like that's never happened before). We are supposed to trust without the ability to verify. I'm not ok with that, and I'm certainly not ok with this type of decision coming from the FCC. If vendors do it on their own, I'd simply buy from a different vendor. That's capitalism. 

There are already laws in place for this, so why not just enforce existing law? I'm tired of the excuse that "it's too hard" being used to create a new set of restrictions. We've been dumping massive amounts of money into technology that can, for example, spot a migrant worker at night from 30,000 feet- but somehow locating some geek's hot-rodded router (broadcasting a signal, no less) is a real technical challenge? I think it's fair to ask: is this a Real Problem or an Invented Problem? Can anyone point to specific examples where this has been a serious public safety issue (referring to router hacks of course, let's leave immigration out of the thread ;) )??

> On Jul 29, 2015, at 4:37 PM, Rod Person <rodperson at rodperson.com> wrote:
> 
> Yes, I see that DD-WRT is mentioned as an example 3rd party firmware,
> so I went and found FCC 13-40, which lots to have all the detail. I
> have not read the entire thing but it looks like 5G devices can be
> modified by software to operate from 4G up to 6G...which looks like
> this can be a problem with lots of things.
> 
> Here it is if anyone wants those details:
> http://transition.fcc.gov/Daily_Releases/Daily_Business/2014/db0401/FCC-14-30A1.pdf
> 
> I'm just going to maintain my stand that this is not an attack on
> consumer freedom. It just really irritates me when articles blow
> things out of proportion given all the real attacks on freedoms and
> right that are out there, consumerism is the last thing that needs
> defending.
> 
> I will now return to lurking...
> 
> 
> 
> On Wed, 29 Jul 2015 14:49:25 -0400
> Pat Barron <pat at lectroid.com> wrote:
> 
>> One of the issues I have with this is that U-NII devices (e.g.,
>> 5GHz Wi-Fi) have to be locked down to prevent loading any custom
>> firmware at all (they specifically mention DD-WRT as something the
>> manufacturers have to prevent being loaded).  That is in the other
>> attachment
>> (https://apps.fcc.gov/kdb/GetAttachment.html?id=1UiSJRK869RsyQddPi5hpw%3D%3D&desc=594280%20D02%20U-NII%20Device%20Security%20v01r02&tracking_number=39498).
>> I may actually file a comment about that, myself.
>> 
>> Aside from that - yeah, what's required is that the manufacturer's 
>> prevent modifiability that would allow the device to operate
>> outside of the authorized frequency ranges and power levels, as a
>> condition of their Part 15 certification.  And that's not an
>> unusual requirement. The requirement is there because, to be blunt,
>> enough people do it that it's a problem.  For instance, I've seen a
>> number of posts of people bragging that they have modified their
>> Wi-Fi gear to operate on channel 14 (e.g., to try to escape
>> interference from other Wi-Fi networks in crowded areas), which is
>> prohibited in the US.  In fact, in the US, that frequency is
>> allocated to other uses. Channels 12 and 13 have max power output
>> levels (because those frequencies are shared with other users),
>> that people try to circumvent.  Who cares if you're interfering
>> with an authorized user, on a frequency you have no authorization
>> to use, or because you're using a power level you're not authorized
>> to use.. Regulations like this don't appear out of a vacuum - they
>> happen when the FCC sees a problem, and they find that it's much
>> easier to go after the manufacturers to deal with it than to find
>> the "needle in a haystack" individual users who are causing the
>> problems.
>> 
>> Most of the requirements can be accomplished by splitting out the 
>> firmware for the OS and the baseband (which is what many cellphones
>> do), or by using a radio chipset that has separate firmware where 
>> modification is prevented.  Whether manufacturers would actually do
>> that is open to debate.  Particularly with consumer gear, they're
>> selling hardware - the software is not a profit center for them, so
>> they do it as quickly and cheaply as they possibly can.
>> 
>> I'm not too concerned about this, myself (aside from the outright 
>> blanket prohibition on third-party firmware on U-NII devices).  If
>> it's really a concern, the solution is to buy a router without a
>> radio (like one of the Mikrotik routers) which therefore doesn't
>> need Part 15 certification, buy a separate radio that will plug
>> into it (that's typically sold as something other than a "radio",
>> so it too evades Part 15 certification), and go to town with DD-WRT.
>> 
>> --Pat.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 7/29/2015 2:02 PM, Rod Person wrote:
>>> Read the thing, it only related to frequency range, modulation
>>> type and max power.  Would you want you next neighbor modifiy
>>> there route so that overpower yours?  Or screwing with
>>> frequuencies and blocking your cellphone?
>>> 
>>> https://apps.fcc.gov/kdb/GetAttachment.html?id=5NjjaXsjV97%2BhlMWvZ1QRw%3D%3D&desc=594280 
>>> D01 Configuration Control v02r01&tracking_number=39498
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On 07/29/2015 1:56 PM, Zachary Uram wrote:
>>>> I concur!!!
>>>> 
>>>> On Wed, Jul 29, 2015 at 1:49 PM, Doug Green<diego96 at mac.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Politics aside, and regardless of "who's watch" this particular
>>>>> legislation occurred on, it is undeniable that constitutionally 
>>>>> guaranteed
>>>>> liberties are under constant attack. Simply put, We do not live
>>>>> in the country that the Founding Fathers envisioned.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I'm not a political activist, nor a conspiracy theorist, but
>>>>> it's the feeling of constant erosion of my constitutional
>>>>> rights (particularly 4th
>>>>> amendment, although "civil forfeiture" is equally disgusting)
>>>>> that drove me
>>>>> Back to using Free Software after a relative hiatus (to the 
>>>>> "convenience"
>>>>> of the apple camp).
>>>>> 
>>>>> IMHO the exposure of these programs represents a Massive
>>>>> Opportunity for
>>>>> Linux to gain a larger footprint in mainstream computing, as
>>>>> more people
>>>>> are being put-off by Big Brother type surveillance programs.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Jul 29, 2015, at 10:14 AM, Zachary Uram<netrek at gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Not surprising this happened on Obama's watch! Everything the
>>>>>> man touches
>>>>>> is a disaster. I'd rather have George W. Bush than Obama or
>>>>>> even worse Hillary!
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Tue, Jul 28, 2015 at 9:50 PM, John
>>>>>>> Lewis<oflameo2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> http://www.cnx-software.com/2015/07/27/new-fcc-rules-may-prevent-installing-openwrt-on-wifi-routers/#ixzz3hEkRpVTn 
>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Bad news for your routerphiles out there that just bought a
>>>>>>> On Networks
>>>>>>> N300 Wireless Router N300R, for it may be the last router you
>>>>>>> will be able to reflash with your favorite *WRT distribution.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> The FCC wants to take away your router modification rights
>>>>>>> for your safety, because they think their regulation is too
>>>>>>> hard for you hackers
>>>>>>> to follow. It is defiantly not because companies lobbied for
>>>>>>> it so they
>>>>>>> can make more money by selling you routers full of badware and
>>>>>>> anti-features. If you don't believe the FCC is trying to make
>>>>>>> you safe
>>>>>>> by taking away your ability do modify your property, you are
>>>>>>> probably some kind of conspiracy theorist that thinks they
>>>>>>> can send files over the radio.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> wplug mailing list
>>>>>>> wplug at wplug.org
>>>>>>> http://www.wplug.org/mailman/listinfo/wplug
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>> http://www.fidei.org
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>>>>>> wplug mailing list
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> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Rod
> 
> http://www.rodperson.com
> 
> He who knows himself to be one way and pretends it is another way is a
> thief who robs his own soul.
> 
>  The Mahabharata
>     Sakuntala 25
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