[wplug] The evilness of it all (Verizon OT post)

Wed Aug 23 11:45:38 EDT 2006

There's a lot of positives about Pittsburgh, and a lot of negatives too.  Some people really care about making changes for the good of the collective, others just want to be happy living their everyday life.  So goes it for every other place in the world.  The same applies to Linux, Mac, Windows, etc.

Pittsburgh is like my mother, and Seattle is like my wife - I can divorce my wife, but I'll always have Pittsburgh.  Regards from the west coast.

----- Original Message ----
From: Shane Liesegang <shane at shaneliesegang.com>
To: General user list <wplug at wplug.org>
Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2006 10:29:01 PM
Subject: Re: [wplug] The evilness of it all (Verizon OT post)

Interesting that you would write something so inflammatory about 
Pittsburgh to a predominantly Pittsburgh list, but then claim the last 
word and that you didn't wish to start a flame war.

Sadly, I'm sure there will be myriad responses from those who disagree 
with you.

I've never understood this tendency, to throw a (proverbial) and then 
run away saying "I don't want to fight!" Seems to happen often on the 
internet, with the "I don't want to start a flame war BUT" mentality.

Ah well. Just an observation, from a fellow Californian who enjoyed his 
sojourn in Pittsburgh.

    - SJML

Doug Green wrote:
> Haha- I'm definitely not kidding. Furthermore, I'm not going to waste any
> time "educating" anyone (maybe "convincing" is a better word, but I have a
> hard time seeing it that way). In Shadyside you'll pay every penny of 1200
> for a decent 690sf apartment, and then some. PLUS you'll have to pay
> outrageous utility bills.
> 
> Buy a home in the Burgh, go ahead. It'll cost 10x less than a comparable
> home elsewhere. And in ten years, when "elsewhere" has appreciated 7-12%
> annually, your Pittsburgh home will be worth roughly what you paid for it.
> That's a great investment if you like to lose money. You're better off
> stuffing your money in your mattress, at least there you won't be taxed
> (HEAVILY) on it! Nor will you have to pay 17$/mcf to keep it warm!!
> 
>>From now on, mum's the word from me regarding this topic because I refuse to
> be in a flame war. Honestly, if you like living there more power to you.
> 
> 
> On 8/22/06 9:18 PM, "kimberly" <kim at starjewel.org> wrote:
> 
>> You've got to be joking doug. I pay $1200/mo for a 690 sq ft apartment in
>> Sunnyvale. Real estate is the only thing that makes me want to move back
>> home.
>>
>> On Tue, 22 Aug 2006, Doug Green wrote:
>>
>>> Yeah, it's pathetic. Even more pathetic is that Pittsburghers have done
>>> NOTHING about the backyard monster for decades. The "don't hurt my boss"
>>> mentality runs deep there- wake up, UPMC has had the city by the nads for
>>> years.
>>>
>>> UPMC makes a majority of their money on real estate deals. Healthcare is,
>>> indeed, a profitable venture- but the corporate giant has it's fingers in
>>> deeper pockets as well.
>>>
>>> I'm afraid that the joke is on Pittsburgh. UPMC is the majority employer in
>>> the region. UPMC is the largest landholder in the metropolitan city area.
>>> UPMC is tax-exempt. To make up for the property taxes that are not paid by
>>> UPMC, the city looks to you.
>>>
>>> I've lived a lot of places in my life- including places where "the taxes are
>>> really high"- and I've NEVER paid so much for so little.
>>>
>>> I wasted 8 long years in the Burgh, hoping I'd see signs of change. I could
>>> rail on and on about how pathetic that area is, but instead I chose to
>>> LEAVE. I sold my house and got the hell out of there - and I took my two
>>> doctorate degrees with me!
>>>
>>> If you've read this far, you might be thinking "good- leave if you don't
>>> like it here". And that mentality is the exact reason that Pittsburgh is
>>> losing, and will continue to lose, the highly trained young professionals.
>>> Pittsburgh has done NOTHING to attract or retain them!!
>>>
>>> Food for thought: I now live 3 blocks from the beach in Southern California,
>>> and my rent is LOWER than what I paid in Shadyside (8 years ago). Unlike
>>> Shadyside, my utility bills are included. I get a personal retirement
>>> savings plan instead of mandatory social security contributions. I get a
>>> renter's tax deduction for my housing expenses. There is no "tax penalty"
>>> for being employed within city limits. There's no city income tax. There's
>>> no payroll tax.
>>>
>>> Yes, you are correct, there is something terribly wrong with Pittsburgh.
>>> UPMC is a good start.
>>>
>>> Cheers from greener pastures,
>>> Doug
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 8/22/06 7:46 PM, "Zach" <netrek at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 8/22/06, Brent M. Rust <rust at lucasware.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Maybe they figure that if the oil companies can make record profits then
>>>>> they too can reap the benefits of a complacent public and little or no
>>>>> competition.
>>>> Read in P-G today that UPMC posted a 77% increase in profits for the
>>>> past fiscal year ending July! That is insanity. They are now up to
>>>> over $ 1/2 billion in PROFITS. Hmm let's see we have most expensive
>>>> health care and universities in the world which an increasing number
>>>> of people can't access (and no not just the poor or working poor, this
>>>> is starting to hit the middle class), and then there is the equally
>>>> trend where wages have remained largely stagnant for past 5 years,
>>>> utility costs (electricity and natural gas) are soaring like e^x,
>>>> gasoline prices are insane, etc. ad infinitum. Seems more and more
>>>> people are working longer and harder to achieve a sub-standard quality
>>>> of living compared to their parents or grandparents' generation.
>>>> Wonder how far away we are from another big social inflection point.
>>>> :-) At least Linux is still free!
>>>>
>>>> Zach
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