[wplug] The evilness of it all (Verizon OT post)

Wed Aug 23 01:29:01 EDT 2006

Interesting that you would write something so inflammatory about 
Pittsburgh to a predominantly Pittsburgh list, but then claim the last 
word and that you didn't wish to start a flame war.

Sadly, I'm sure there will be myriad responses from those who disagree 
with you.

I've never understood this tendency, to throw a (proverbial) and then 
run away saying "I don't want to fight!" Seems to happen often on the 
internet, with the "I don't want to start a flame war BUT" mentality.

Ah well. Just an observation, from a fellow Californian who enjoyed his 
sojourn in Pittsburgh.

	- SJML

Doug Green wrote:
> Haha- I'm definitely not kidding. Furthermore, I'm not going to waste any
> time "educating" anyone (maybe "convincing" is a better word, but I have a
> hard time seeing it that way). In Shadyside you'll pay every penny of 1200
> for a decent 690sf apartment, and then some. PLUS you'll have to pay
> outrageous utility bills.
> 
> Buy a home in the Burgh, go ahead. It'll cost 10x less than a comparable
> home elsewhere. And in ten years, when "elsewhere" has appreciated 7-12%
> annually, your Pittsburgh home will be worth roughly what you paid for it.
> That's a great investment if you like to lose money. You're better off
> stuffing your money in your mattress, at least there you won't be taxed
> (HEAVILY) on it! Nor will you have to pay 17$/mcf to keep it warm!!
> 
>>From now on, mum's the word from me regarding this topic because I refuse to
> be in a flame war. Honestly, if you like living there more power to you.
> 
> 
> On 8/22/06 9:18 PM, "kimberly" <kim at starjewel.org> wrote:
> 
>> You've got to be joking doug. I pay $1200/mo for a 690 sq ft apartment in
>> Sunnyvale. Real estate is the only thing that makes me want to move back
>> home.
>>
>> On Tue, 22 Aug 2006, Doug Green wrote:
>>
>>> Yeah, it's pathetic. Even more pathetic is that Pittsburghers have done
>>> NOTHING about the backyard monster for decades. The "don't hurt my boss"
>>> mentality runs deep there- wake up, UPMC has had the city by the nads for
>>> years.
>>>
>>> UPMC makes a majority of their money on real estate deals. Healthcare is,
>>> indeed, a profitable venture- but the corporate giant has it's fingers in
>>> deeper pockets as well.
>>>
>>> I'm afraid that the joke is on Pittsburgh. UPMC is the majority employer in
>>> the region. UPMC is the largest landholder in the metropolitan city area.
>>> UPMC is tax-exempt. To make up for the property taxes that are not paid by
>>> UPMC, the city looks to you.
>>>
>>> I've lived a lot of places in my life- including places where "the taxes are
>>> really high"- and I've NEVER paid so much for so little.
>>>
>>> I wasted 8 long years in the Burgh, hoping I'd see signs of change. I could
>>> rail on and on about how pathetic that area is, but instead I chose to
>>> LEAVE. I sold my house and got the hell out of there - and I took my two
>>> doctorate degrees with me!
>>>
>>> If you've read this far, you might be thinking "good- leave if you don't
>>> like it here". And that mentality is the exact reason that Pittsburgh is
>>> losing, and will continue to lose, the highly trained young professionals.
>>> Pittsburgh has done NOTHING to attract or retain them!!
>>>
>>> Food for thought: I now live 3 blocks from the beach in Southern California,
>>> and my rent is LOWER than what I paid in Shadyside (8 years ago). Unlike
>>> Shadyside, my utility bills are included. I get a personal retirement
>>> savings plan instead of mandatory social security contributions. I get a
>>> renter's tax deduction for my housing expenses. There is no "tax penalty"
>>> for being employed within city limits. There's no city income tax. There's
>>> no payroll tax.
>>>
>>> Yes, you are correct, there is something terribly wrong with Pittsburgh.
>>> UPMC is a good start.
>>>
>>> Cheers from greener pastures,
>>> Doug
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 8/22/06 7:46 PM, "Zach" <netrek at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 8/22/06, Brent M. Rust <rust at lucasware.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Maybe they figure that if the oil companies can make record profits then
>>>>> they too can reap the benefits of a complacent public and little or no
>>>>> competition.
>>>> Read in P-G today that UPMC posted a 77% increase in profits for the
>>>> past fiscal year ending July! That is insanity. They are now up to
>>>> over $ 1/2 billion in PROFITS. Hmm let's see we have most expensive
>>>> health care and universities in the world which an increasing number
>>>> of people can't access (and no not just the poor or working poor, this
>>>> is starting to hit the middle class), and then there is the equally
>>>> trend where wages have remained largely stagnant for past 5 years,
>>>> utility costs (electricity and natural gas) are soaring like e^x,
>>>> gasoline prices are insane, etc. ad infinitum. Seems more and more
>>>> people are working longer and harder to achieve a sub-standard quality
>>>> of living compared to their parents or grandparents' generation.
>>>> Wonder how far away we are from another big social inflection point.
>>>> :-) At least Linux is still free!
>>>>
>>>> Zach
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