[wplug] On the subject of wardriving...

[Teodorski, Christopher]

I would say that wardriving in its purest form is simply driving around
and identifying and (potentially) mapping the location of wireless
access points.




-----Original Message-----
From: wplug-bounces+christopher.teodorski=ddiworld.com at wplug.org
[mailto:wplug-bounces+christopher.teodorski=ddiworld.com at wplug.org] On
Behalf Of Michael P. O Connor
Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2005 3:34 PM
To: General user list
Subject: Re: [wplug] On the subject of wardriving...

Bill I would say insteade of not using the term wardriving, maybe we
should define it better. what is it
1) driving down the streat and seeing the diffent networks?
2) driving down the streat looking for differnt networks?
3) driving down the streat hacking into diffent networks?
4) other?
what deffinition does every one on this list use??

> Drew from Zhrodague <drew at zhrodague.net> wrote:
> > > Because the laws are new and untested, wardriving is a very grey
area.  If
> > > you want to do it anyway and take your chances, or if you want to
do it as
> > > a form of social protest or whatever - that's your decision.  My
only point
> > > is that that the way the new laws are written, it _may_ be illegal
- and a
> > > criminal offense.
> > > 
> > > It's good that this kind of discussion occurs.  These laws are
very new, and
> > > there's a good chance that some of them are very wrong and need to
be fixed
> > > up.  My only point is that you should be aware of them before you
go flying
> > > around town with an 802.11 receiver.
> > 
> > 	(sound of can opener)
> > 
> > 	I'll agree with everything you said above, and add that if 
> > wardriving were illegal, everytime you open up your laptop and look
at a 
> > list of networks to connect to, you would be breaking the law for
each of 
> > the entries that showed up in the window, unless it is your AP, or
you're 
> > at a public hotspot.
> 
> I just see that paragraph as a distraction.
> 
> Wardriving is _not_ turning on your laptop and noticing that SSIDs are
> being broadcast in your vicinity.  It is investigating those SSIDs to
see
> which ones are not secured and making note of that information.
> 
> If it were only noticing, then it wouldn't be any more illegal than
noticing
> that someone left their door unlocked ... but as soon as you open that
door,
> you step in to uncertain legal territory.  Even if you don't go in, or
> do any damage ... the fact that you opened the door puts you in a
> questionable position.  If you don't do any damage, or cause any $$$
loss,
> you'll probably get away with it, but the point is that you've crossed
> (or are standing on) the line.
> 
> If you want to continually redefine what the term "wardriving" means,
you're
> going to miss the point entirely, so lets stop using that term (since
we
> can't seem to agree on what it means.)
> 
> The simple fact is that using somebody's network in a manner that you
are
> not authorized to do is a criminal offense according to current PA
state
> law.  Exactly where you've crossed the line into "use" is up to the
> lawyers to decide.
> 
> > 	Also, the manufacturers of our operating systems, and the
wireless 
> > equipment would be condoning such network abuse by designing the
systems 
> > to operate in such a way that it violates federal laws repeatedly,
and at 
> > all times.
> > 
> > 	Gross overstatement? Perhaps, but the only difference is that 
> > wardriving sometimes involves a GPS.
> > 
> > 	Perhaps these things WILL be tested in court, but the only way I

> > can see that happening is along the same lines of the other two 
> > wardriving-related cases: One broke into Lowe's wireless network,
and the 
> > other was doing wireless kiddie porn in his car with no pants on.
Both 
> > instances involved wardriving, yes, but the real problem was the
breaking 
> > in of wireless networks -- and not wardriving.
> 
> "breaking in" has yet to be defined as well.
> 
> If I put a stack of $20 bills behind a locked glass door in plain
view, and
> you break the glass to take it, is that theft?
> If I put the same stack of $20 bills behind an unlocked glass door in
plain
> view and you open the door and take them, is that theft?
> If I put the same stack on my property, but in plain view with
absolutely
> no deterrent, and you take them, is that theft?
> If I put the same stack on public property with no deterrent and you
take
> them, is that theft?
> 
> And which one of those circumstances is closest to using someones
unsecured
> wireless network without their permission?
> 
> -- 
> Bill Moran
> Potential Technologies
> http://www.potentialtech.com
> _______________________________________________
> wplug mailing list
> wplug at wplug.org
> http://www.wplug.org/mailman/listinfo/wplug
> 
> 

-- 
Michael P. O'Connor
mpop at mikeoconnor.net
http://www.mikeoconnor.net

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