[wplug] The Open Pitt, Issue 7

Vance Kochenderfer vkochend at nyx.net
Sat Jan 8 19:54:04 EST 2005


Here is December's Open Pitt.  Sorry for the delay in getting it out to
the list.  You can read past issues at <http://www.wplug.org/top/>.


                              THE OPEN PITT
      What's cooking in Linux and Open Source in Western Pennsylvania

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Issue 7                        December 2004                  www.wplug.org
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In this issue:
  Linux and PowerPC: Interview with Henry Keultjes
  November Roundup

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                               Coming Events

Dec. 11: Tutorial, Topic: Kernel Configuration.  10am to 2pm, 1507 Newell-
         Simon Hall, CMU
Jan. 8:  Installfest.  10am to 5pm, 1507 Newell-Simon Hall, CMU
Jan. 15: General User Meeting, Topic: User Mode Linux.  10am to 2pm, 1507
         Newell-Simon Hall, CMU
Feb. 5:  General User Meeting, Topic: Building and Using RPMs.  10am to
         2pm, 1507 Newell-Simon Hall, CMU
Feb. 19: Tutorial, Topic: System Administration.  10am to 2pm, 1507
         Newell-Simon Hall, CMU

                    The public is welcome at all events
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Linux and PowerPC: Interview with Henry Keultjes

Originally from The Netherlands, Henry Keultjes joined Sperry Rand in the
mid-1960's as a systems analyst and sales consultant.  He later formed
Microdyne Company as a system reseller, then acquired an ergonomic chair
manufacturing business.  His experiences led him to develop an integrated
manufacturing software suite.

Henry subsequently sold the chair business to focus on software and is now
involved in multi-dimensional databases.  Working with the IBM RT (an early
RISC system) and its successors convinced him that the PowerPC processor is
ideal for database applications.  In a 2001 article titled "Perfect Pair:
PowerPC and Linux" <http://www.ncolug.org/pp.html> he argued that low-cost
PowerPC-based desktop Linux machines could challenge the Microsoft/Intel
duopoly.

At October's Ohio LinuxFest, he showed a demonstration model of his
"LinuxPC" made by Mai Logic.  He kindly agreed to an e-mail interview.

The Open Pitt: You seem to feel that today's business software
applications (and the hardware needed to run them) are bloated with
features which add no real value.

Henry Keultjes: Correct, if by business applications you mean things like
Microsoft Word or applications like ERP that run on one of the Windows
platforms.

At the end of 1989, the software that I developed for our direct sales
ergonomic chair manufacturing company, including all the data from 15 years
of operation as well as the database software and the embedded OS
functionality, fit on one 150MB tape.

In the successor company that software achieved nearly unequaled
productivity for a highly integrated manufacturing company: $350,000 sales
per employee per year. It did as much, or more, as today's best ERP systems
because it was totally integrated.

TOP: If simple, integrated software is so productive, why is the "rich"
multimedia desktop PC ubiquitous today?

HK: Stupidity, ignorance, keeping up with the Joneses--pick one or all or
add your own popular reason for people to pay for something whose features
they hardly use.  SUVs are a good analogy.  I am not an SUV basher at all,
but it is obvious that they are rarely used in their true element which is
off-road.  On the roads where they are used, their driving characteristics
typically make them more dangerous to the user as well as surrounding
drivers.

The one and only reason that the Microsoft desktop is ubiquitous is Bill
Gates' sandbox kid personality that drove him to demand *exclusive* OEM
installs.  While the latest antitrust case outlawed the exclusivity, it
came only after Microsoft had a 95%+ market share.

TOP: Are you also an advocate of the thin-client computing model?

HK: To me that's the only way to do computing, whether it be in a business
or even at home where it is the only model that allows parental control.
I especially like the "credit card" concept that allows users to move from
one machine to the other and "carry" their desktop with them.

While most people think of SunRay for this type of application, the same
thing has worked on IBM thin-clients for many years and worked for us in
the dumb-terminal era except that we had to type our user ID in, instead
of being able to simply swipe a card.

TOP: Is the motherboard you demonstrated at the LinuxFest shipping in
quantity?

HK: At the Modern Computing Technology show in China, Mai Logic
demonstrated 300 of these boards running on an IBM OpenPower 720.  The lot
sizes of the boards being manufactured will increase gradually.  Most of
the boards produced so far are staying in China because the market there is
more receptive to OpenPower.  When [the IBM/Lenovo deal is completed] the
USA PowerPC market situation will change rapidly.

TOP: How do you propose to standardize other parts of the platform, like
the supporting chipset?  How do you get compatible on-board peripherals?

HK: That's the neat thing behind having the cooperation of VIA, its Mini-
ITX designs and chipset capabilities.  However, if you look at the Mai
Logic site you will find that its million+ gate logic capabilities are
driving this project.  Mai Logic is in essence vertically integrating in
order to sell the PowerPC chipsets.  Once we go beyond the Mini-ITX board
to a system-on-chip (SoC) design, then those issues become much easier to
solve because any of those technologies can simply be licensed for
inclusion on the SoC die or they can be taken from Open Source projects.

TOP: Up to now, SoC designs have largely been relegated to embedded
projects.

HK: Why should a desktop system not be an embedded system?  That's at least
what I reasoned when I wrote the Perfect Pair article.  What's the real
difference between a set-top box, a GameCube, and a desktop PC?  Very
little, and so building on the higher volumes of embedded markets makes a
lot of sense because they will leverage on each other for lower costs.

TOP: Many vendors make plug-in hardware for the IBM PC architecture.  Is
there any interest in the LinuxPC platform?

HK: IBM is working hard at lining up partners for the PowerPC core and it
seems logical that some of these designs will end up in desktop systems.
Once momentum is evident it is also logical that other companies will jump
on the bandwagon.

However, the basic manufacturing concepts from the original IBM PC are
doomed.  There will perhaps be half a dozen companies in the world that
will make SoC modules, just like IBM makes modules in million+ lots for the
Nintendo GameCube.  Visualize sticking such a module on the back of an LCD
monitor and it is evident that most of the value added comes from
manufacturing the LCD and the PowerPC module.  That module would probably
*sell* for about $70.  The rest of the value added will be peanuts.

TOP: Back in the mid-90's, IBM developed two unsuccessful PowerPC
platforms, PReP and CHRP.  How can your proposed platform avoid a similar
fate?

HK: The main problem with both projects is that they went after existing
PowerPC markets whereas the LinuxPC goes very clearly after x86 market
share only.  Also, the PowerPC architecture has advanced considerably since
then and so it is fairly easy now to add things like improved I/O
capabilities to the chip with internal wiring.  IBM has phenomenal I/O
capabilities on its OpenPower platforms that range from the OpenPower 720
Linux box all the way up to the i, p, and zSeries machines.

The way I see it, the PowerPC server market is already well served by both
IBM and Apple.  The desktop is a lot more price sensitive and before
hundreds of PowerPC white boxes are bought to hang on the single PowerPC
server, a certain price compatibility has to be met.

TOP: The Mac is the best-known PowerPC desktop, but many consider it
expensive.  Is keeping cost down for the LinuxPC just a matter of volume?

HK: No, it is a matter of attitude.  Steve Jobs is a remarkable guy who
could have had a 100 million/year Mac market had he set his mind on doing
that.  Instead Jobs is an elitist and a cream-skimming marketer.  Nothing
wrong with that if it makes him money, as it obviously does.  My eyes, on
the other hand, are on market share.

TOP: How can Intel be a monopoly when others offer x86 processors?

HK: Intel is an effective monopoly because of its tactics.  It uses all
kind of means to prevent board manufacturers from giving its competitors
too much market share.  One of those is slowing down or stopping delivery
of its processors to board manufacturers that do not toe the line.  Since
there are no board manufacturers here in the USA, those tactics cannot
effectively be prevented nor punished with US laws.

TOP: Doesn't IBM exercise as much control over PowerPC as Intel has over
x86?

HK: No, the PowerPC design is Open.  Both Motorola and Apple were part of
the originators.  Since then several other companies, including Microsoft,
Samsung and Chartered Semiconductor (Singapore) have joined the club.  You,
Vance Kochenderfer, could effectively join that club. However, those
companies have no obligation to share their knowledge of implementing the
design.  Companies can even make changes to the actual PowerPC processor
core, if they see benefits in doing so.  Thus while Intel sells chips, IBM
sells services; designing and fabricating chips.

TOP: Why do you pick PowerPC over other RISC designs like MIPS and ARM?

HK: The main reason for favoring PowerPC as that all of IBM's own servers
run on it.  Therefore one can develop a software architecture that is
portable all the way from Linux on the GameCube to Linux on the IBM
zSeries.  There is nothing on this earth that can match that.  The second
reason is also because of those servers which gives IBM the capability of
giving us greatly improved compiler technology.  Some of the second-round
improvement in OS X was purely related to IBM making that compiler
technology available to Apple.

TOP: Linux support for PowerPC and other platforms tends to lag behind x86.
Is this a problem for the LinuxPC?

HK: Not really.  There is money to be made in supporting these LinuxPC
platforms and therefore existing companies and/or new companies will step
up to the plate to take existing Linux Open Source code and make it ready
for these PPC platforms.

TOP: Thank you for your time!

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November Roundup

Nov. 6 General User Meeting: Avram Avishai gave an overview of Mac OS X. 
Based on an open-source Darwin core, Apple layers its proprietary Quartz
display engine and Aqua user interface on top.  Avi demonstrated new
features like managing open windows with Expose, Rendezvous
zero-configuration networking, and Spotlight, a whole-system search
engine.

===========================================================================
The Open Pitt is published by the Western Pennsylvania Linux Users Group
<http://www.wplug.org/top/>

Editors: Elwin Green, Vance Kochenderfer

Copyright 2004 Western Pennsylvania Linux Users Group.  Any article in
this newsletter may be reprinted elsewhere in any medium, provided it is
not changed and attribution is given to the author and WPLUG.


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