[wplug] apt and rpm/up2date

[Vanco, Donald]

bgtrio at yahoo.com wrote:
> The up2date service works pretty well, but as has been pointed out
> here, it really just updates the rpms that you've got installed, and
> more specifically, the rpms that are a part of the official
> distribution. 

ugh.....
For the third time:
(note this is a 7.2 system - this function has existed for some time) 

[root at cdburner root]# rpm -q amanda
package amanda is not installed

[root at cdburner root]# up2date amanda
Fetching package list for channel: redhat-linux-i386-7.2...
########################################

Fetching Obsoletes list for channel: redhat-linux-i386-7.2...
########################################

Fetching rpm headers...
########################################

Testing package set / solving RPM inter-dependencies...
########################################
amanda-2.4.2p2-4.i386.rpm:  ########################## Done.
Preparing...                ###########################################
[100%]

Installing...
   1:amanda                 ###########################################
[100%]
[root at cdburner root]#



	IMHO The biggest bite in the @$$ with the "free" RHN is when you get
this:

Error Message:
    Free service limited due to high load; please try again in 30-60 minutes
(server 1000488384)
Error Class Code: 51
Error Class Info:
     Due to extremely high traffic, access to Red Hat Network is currently
     limited to subscription customers.  Please try again later.  If you
     would like to become a subscription customer, go to
     https://rhn.redhat.com/preview/priority_service.pxt for more
information.
Explanation:
     An error has occurred while processing your request. If this problem
     persists please submit a bug report to rhn-help at redhat.com.
     If you choose to submit the bug report, please be sure to include
     details of what you were trying to do when this error occurred and
     details on how to reproduce this problem.

	It's not too often that I see it, but I see it enough that I don't
like it.

	I personally do not feel there is value in paying for RHN - don't
get me wrong, it's cool and all that - but then I've gotten along without it
for a long time and know how to keep my systems updated and what mirrors
tend to be speedy for me.  My boss, OTOH, is a lazy guy with lots of cash,
so he pays for the priority queue.


> 
> In contrast, Debian's apt system is an official network that includes
> tons of packages that are not part of the base system.
> 
> For a trivial example, quake2 and angband (two of my favorite games)
> can be acquired and updated via apt-get through the debian non-free
> servers. There is no such facility for rpm, to my knowledge.

	That is, in fact, very cool.  rpmfind (http://www.rpmfind.net/) will
give an RPM based distro the same function - but it is not a core RH
component (they kicked it out after 7.2), so updates to rpm seem to always
break rpmfind for at least a little while.  I don't know why RH doesn't take
this "next step", but I am sure it has everything to do with maintaining
control of a system as an "Enterprise Class" computing device.  I suppose in
RH's eyes "if they don't include it you don't need it".  At least that's the
attitude around Advanced Server.  I'm sure it makes support a lot easier for
them.

> You can view all of the packages available via apt-get for debian
> unstable here:
> http://packages.debian.org/unstable/allpackages.html
> 
> Warning, it's a very big page.  There are similar pages for testing
> and stable.
> 
> There are apt-rpm servers out there, but I fear to use them because
> they are not officially supported by redhat in any way, so I don't
> have the same confidence in their quality that I do with the debian
> packages. 
	RPM can check keys, but that does little to insure that the package
is from a trustable source.  Caution is likely warranted - but sometimes if
you want a "fringe" package you have to take the risk.

> Perhaps others who have tried this will correct me, but it
> seems that the selection of software one can obtain with apt-rpm is
> very limited compared with the apt-get network.
> 
> I would love to see a translation facility to convert .deb packages
> to the rpms one needs so that apt-rpm can simply be a wrapper to the
> ordinary .deb related apt-get, but I have neither the acumen, time,
> nor funds to accomplish such a feat.  Perhaps as the Linux Standards
> Base evolves this will become possible.
	Speaking out of uncertainty here - but isn't alien a tool that does
just that - make .debs work as rpms?

> Apt-get seems to solve a more general problem than up2date, and
> apt-rpm doesn't seem to be "there" yet.  If I'm wrong I would be in
> the debt of whoever exposes my error.
	It's got a better history certainly.  I just wonder if RH will ever
allow RPM to get to that point - seems to offer the potential for the RHN to
go away (or at least become less popular than it is already) and I doubt RH
would let that happen.

Don